It was five hours. Three hours of being with DH in a small room and two hours of anxiously waiting while my babies were being counselled about what their wishes were.
At no time were the 4 of use in the counselling room together... thank god. The counsellor obviously took one whiff of the tension between DH and me and realised that it would NOT be good for the kids.
So... I'll do my best to share what happened. There was a lot said though, and I was incredibly emotional, so I cannot remember everything.
I remember that the counsellor was not very warm or friendly. Sure, she needs to stay detached, but I felt that she was quite judgmental.
DH was trying to paint a picture of himself as a saint-like father who was fighting the “good fight” (against a wicked witch) to see more of his kids before they grow up. He said things like “I know that, as boys, they need their father more than their mother now and I want them to live with me so that they can have a proper relationship with me”. He said that I had always used the issue of money (unpaid child support) to keep him feeling guilty, which had led him to not being able to communicate with me, which led him to this legal action.
Every single thing he said was about blaming me.
At one point we flared up at each other. The counsellor was talking about the “open wound” of our separation 11 years ago as the primary cause of all of our problems. DH said something along the lines of “She made me leave her. She was depressed and pregnant and was impossible to live with. No man would have stayed in that situation” and I sat up in my chair, turned to face him, and, shaking and crying, said “No decent man would leave his pregnant wife and baby because she was suffering from AN ILLNESS!! And then SUE HER FOR MONEY! And then NOT PAY CHILD SUPPORT”. The counsellor was telling me that she heard him say that he was suffering enormous guilt from having left like that and I said that I could not hear any of that in the words that he was saying, and that if he felt guilt, why had he never fulfilled his financial and moral obligations in the following 11 years. And DH interrupted to say that HE did not sue me, his LAWYERS sued me. Apparently not his responsibility at all.
She said that I had equal responsibility in all of that because I could not forgive him.
*&*@%#^$%@%&#%%@&*#%#@*(#&^$#%
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?????
Not long after that, he and I were sent to wait (I went outside the building so that I would not have to sit in the waiting room with him) while she spoke to the boys. I was tearful and faint, and, knowing that every word said in that room is reportable to the Judicial Registrar (the judge) worried that I had blown it.
Two hours later, DH and I were back in her room. I was determined to be non-reactive this time.
She told us about her time with the boys, about her impressions of them. They were remarkably accurate.
She had said to the boys that if they had 3 wishes, what would they be?
Boo said “1. That my parents stop fighting. 2. That the court case ends. 3. That I have unlimited wishes” (that’s my boy!!)
Toto said “1. That the court case ends. 2. That my parents start talking. 3. That's all I want.”
And then she told us that both boys felt very strongly that they DID NOT WANT TO CHANGE THE CURRENT LIVING ARRANGEMENTS. And that she felt strongly that it would not be in the boys best interests to do so.
I burst into tears. Tears of relief. Tears of amazement that my boys had overcome their fear of DH’s reactions to their words in order to tell their truths.
She went on to tell DH that both boys loved him, but had major concerns about his anger. She said that there was a HUGE difference in our parenting styles, and that the boys felt unsafe with DH and safe with me. When asked what they did when they were angry with their mother, both boys answered “I’ve never been angry with my mother”. When asked what they did when they were angry with their father, Toto said “I hide and get anxious and have trouble breathing and cry”. Boo said “I play my games and refuse to talk to him”.
Both boys brought up the incident in the back lane last March, and the counsellor emphasised to DH how inappropriate his behaviour had been. He crapped on and tried to defend himself, but she shut him down and told him that he had to apologise to the boys about it. One year later, and he still hadn’t done that! Sheesh.
(I've just realised that I haven't ever written about that horrendous incident in the back lane last March. DH was furious with them for having telephoned me because they were terrified as he had left them alone for a long period of time. He lives in the red-light district of Sydney and they get very scared there. I had jumped into my car and driven over there... not to take them home but to stay with them until DH returned. He returned before I got there, and was FURIOUS with them! He told them that if they went home with me they may as well never return. He then put them out in the back lane (unlit and very scary) and closed his garage door. By the time I got there they were scared out of their wits and absolutely hysterical. I took them home, calming them down, telling them that their Dad really loved them and was just angry and would be feeling awful about having done what he did etc etc. He wasn't feeling awful. In fact, he rang up over an hour later still wanting to yell at them for not showing him respect.
It was after that event that the boys refused to stay overnight at DH's house for a couple of weeks. Apparently he left them alone there A LOT. And got that angry A LOT. They had had enough. A few weeks later I convinced them to stay over on the weekend nights that they were there... and that is what they have been doing ever since.)
The boys also said that when they were at DH’s, his flatmate was always there, and he always had friends over. They said that the only times that they were ever alone with him was when they were playing sport.... and even then he was yelling at them and correcting them. She suggested that he attend some sort of parenting programme to help him learn how to respond to their behaviour differently.
He kept defending himself, telling her that Boo was defiant and Toto was easily upset, and she asked me how I handled those aspects of their personalities. I told her that I treated them equally and consistently in terms of behavioral consequences and rewards, and therefore didn’t really see those behaviours at home. She seemed to doubt me, but I explained that I had done parenting courses early on, and had the ongoing support of a Child and Family Psychiatrist and had worked very hard on being consistent when it came to behavioral issues. The kids fought with each other, I got angry with them for procrastinating with chores etc, but nothing ever blew up into a drama. She believed me then.
DH kept referring to the number of nights that he had the boys to stay, and comparing his with his divorced friends. The counsellor explained to him that the number of nights has no bearing on the type of relationship that he could have with his children. She spelled it out by saying that many divorced parents who have equal time with their children have lousy relationships with them, and many who have only minimal access have wonderful relationships with them. It was about quality rather than quantity.
She also said that the situation would be different if he had ever lived with them.
Then she said that, in her opinion, based upon doing this job for 25 years, if he persisted with this court case his relationship with the boys would deteriorate dramatically. She said it was not necessarily fair, but that, because they had always lived with me and felt safe and secure with me, they would perceive his litigiousness as an attack upon me. DH said that that was because I was telling them that, and she emphasised that that was definitely not the case. She said that it was normal for boys to become their mothers' "White Knights". Even if that meant protecting her from their father.
She said that the one thing that we had both been doing right was not denigrating the other parent to the boys. She told him that the boys were aligned with me because I was the parent they wanted to live with, NOT because I had convinced them to say that to the court.
She said that both boys had told her about trying to tell DH that they didn't want to live with him, and about him telling them that they didn't know their own minds, and that they were being "manipulated" by me. She told him that that was detrimental to his relationship with them.
She then suggested that we meet with her again in order to draw up a Parenting Plan which would then be lodged with the court. She emphasised that, because of the boys’ ages, it would not really be enforceable, but that it would end the legal battle and would end the stress upon the boys.
Now, I agreed to this, and DH said yes, but he sounded insincere and I won’t believe it until I see it.
*sigh*
A lot of what was said was about DH and me resolving our differences and beginning a new co-parenting relationship for the sake of the kids.
I said that it would take more than a simple decision in order for that to happen.
I have too much anger. I don’t trust him.
He would need to offer to pay some or all of his debt to me. He would need to sincerely apologise to me. He would need to show me that he is trustworthy.
And he said that I would need to apologise to him for god knows’ what. Seriously. I don’t know what I need to apologise to him for. Oh, and that the debt would need to be wiped as he doesn't have the money to pay it and shouldn't have to go into bankruptcy.
Read the story of our breakup here, if you haven’t already.
He’s been the bastard for 11 years. I’ve reacted to him letting the boys down and lying to me, but I haven’t instigated nastiness or lied to him or cheated him or denied him access to his boys.
So, good luck to us on that one.
Of course I want it for the boys. And I said in that room that I would love to have a decent co-parenting relationship for the sake of the boys.
Maybe I’m not a big enough person. Maybe I’m too selfish. I know all of that stuff about how when you’re angry with someone else you’re only poisoning yourself.... but I am not a saint.
Enough. I’m totally knackered from re-living it for this post. There was heaps more. I may think of more later and edit.
In the meantime, the boys and I are going away for the weekend with a girlfriend of mine and her son, and we’re also taking my godson along. Should be lovely.
Friday, April 3, 2009
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22 comments:
Holy fucking shit.
I haven't even finished reading yet. I'm so angry. I'm almost crying.
I hate your stupid husband and I hate the therapist.
That's all I can say for now.
I shall go and read the rest.
Okay. It sounds like the therapist got a little better.
Well, not much though.
I think you have every right to be angry. I see no reason why you should apologize.
Just my opinion.
I just read your break-up story.
You are an amazing and beautiful woman.
You have overcome so much. You're inspirational.
Your DH really should win a selfishness award.
What is it with men though? Not to stereotype but....it seems they do such selfish things. And when they wrong you, they twist it around to try to make you feel you're to blame.
Your DH is one of the worst though.
I hope you NEVER feel you're to blame for all of this...I hope you never even feel your partly to blame.
It's ALL him.
If he could do one good thing in his life....I wish he'd just move away and leave you and your children alone.
Certainly an ordeal but perhaps a light at the end of the tunnel. Glad Boo and Toto represented themselves and the you did the same (albeit with lots of emotion according to you - and NO ONE would blame you!). I am hopeful that DH wakes up once and for all and sees what a complete and utter @#$%%$# he is and drops this BS. He is obsessed with the 'debt' and does not have a clue about what it means to be a Dad. Self righteous with a victim mentality - everyone one else is to blame.
But until he does, keep doing what you are doing - being an awesome Mum and a giving and loving person - hang in there my love - you are making inroads.
J xox
I just wanted to send love and support. It sounds like a harrowing experience and just as hard reliving it by recording it here. I know that the emotional traumas you are all experiencing will fade in time but that the amount of love and respect you show your boys is immeasurable. You are are remarkable woman!
I have the most amazing amount of admiration for you, Fe. The way you have stayed strong and ALWAYS done what's in the best interests of your kids, even when you had good reason to never let DH see them again - you're an inspiration. I so hope that at least a shred of what the therapist saids breaks through into DH's tiny little brain and that this will bring the court case and the custody issues to an end. Maybe DH will never admit how selfish and wrong he is, but maybe, just maybe he will realise its a losing battle.
And Yay for Toto and Boo - what amazing and strong boys they are - yet another indication of how well you have raised them.
((huge hugs)) - in person soon :)
Have I told you lately, you are my hero?
and
I'm with Dina.
I hate your stupid husband.
I hope you all have a fabulous weekend. Congratulations to all of you for being so brave, and I hope this spells the beginning of the end for all of this court rubbish.
And I hope Mark's friend can pull a rabbit out of a hat!
*sigh*
On your side, Fe. I don't know what else to say.
Jeff
Fe. After reading all of that I am just blown away. I have so much to say. So much of your ex's behaviour is familiar to me. The way he seems to live in a world where other people's thoughts and emotions don't factor in, Unbelievable and yet so, so familiar. What he did to the boys in the lane
was abuse. Plain and simple. I have wanted to deny my ex access to the children after things he has done but I have forced myself, like you, to encourage them to forgive him and go back. I know that you are between a rock and a hard place and it just makes my blood boil, for you, for the boys, that you all have to live with all of this crap.
Gawd it must have been so hard, you did an amazing job. I know I would not be able to keep my cool under such strain.
You are amazing.
Have a lovely weekend, you all deserve a nice relaxing getaway.
xxx
Just back from meeting my new great-nephew, so didn't get to respond before you left on your trip. I hope you and the boys have a lovely time. All I can say is that at least the weight of having the living arrangements for the boys changed is gone. And as per all previous comments online and IRL, I cannnot believe the OZ child support payment system. It would be understandable, though not tolerable, in a country governed by Shia family law, but OZ....give me a break!!!
When your boys get a little older they'll start deciding when they want to go to their Dad's. When they hit upper secondary school and parties and friends become really important to them, sometimes they'll opt to stay with you instead of going to their father's place because there's a party on.
How do I know? Because this is what is happening with my boys. My oldest son (year 12) only goes to his Dad's because he earns $$$ in his shop, and most weekends he's back by 5pm on Saturday because he wants to go out. My second son is so disgusted with his father's behaviour re: child support that he misses every weekend he can, though this has settled down over the last couple of months as life goes on. The other two are still quite young, (junior secondary) but even they miss the odd weekend here and there when it suits them.
It was hard for the ex to come to terms with, and he still tries to lay a massive guilt trip on them when they want to stay here, but they can totally see through it. In fact, they're old enough now to have pieced together all of his lies and manipulations, and they've made up their own minds where they stand.
Your boys will too (if they haven't already!) Personally, once the dust settles from this, I'd be saying to them what I said to my boys when my ex screwed up on the child support (again) last year. "You're all old enough now to decide where you want to spend your weekends. This is your home; and he's your father. Either place is fine with me when it's your Dad's weekend. So they go where they want to.
(Though just between you and me... if he didn't have a shop where they earn money, I think he'd see a lot less of them...)
It sounds like a harrowing experience. Once again, I am awed by your strength.
I hope DH now drops the court case and stops his harrassment of you, and the boys.
Hope you had a lovely relaxing weekend away xoxo
Wow.
Thanks everyone for reading the whole post. I imagine it required at least one cup of tea / coffee / wine to do so.
And your responses? Priceless.
It SO helped to "get it all out" on this post. My weekend (without internet) was far less fraught than it would have been with all that stuff swirling around inside me.
God bless my interweb pals. xoxo
I was almost crying too. I never know what to say but I think you handled yourself well and with a lot more respect to your Ex than he deserves.
Your strength and tenacity is amazing. Your sons are incredible fellows.
I hope your weekend was restful and restorative to your spirit.
I need a bumper sticker that says, "I Hate Fe's DH." Nobody will know what it means, but that's okay. ;)
"He would need to offer to pay some or all of his debt to me. He would need to sincerely apologise to me. He would need to show me that he is trustworthy."
You are right - he has a lot of damage to make up to both you and the boys before he could possibly be on truly good terms with any of you.
Hold your ground, keep your head up.
I say Majorie,
You are doing a great job so careful and hang in there, I say its all rather rum don't you think!
PS that therapist isn't
Love ECC
ooh, I want a bumper sticker too! And why is it always up to us to say sorry and fix the mistakes men make - and if we don't, we're the bad guy. so not fair. we're here for you Fe.
what a nightmare! I am glad the living arangements have worked out. Has he had no parenting classes at all in all those years??? He needs them.
great effort hon - in my humble opinion you do not need to forgive DH - to do so would be counter productive and open up a whole new world of hurt .... he is not deserving of any lattitude ..
you can still co parent the boys in a fashion acceptable to the boys if HE is adult about it ...
thinking of you - I fear the end of this is not so close as yet .... my love le oxox
Oh Fe - only just got to reading this.
Lots and lots of hugs to you.
The man even gives bastards a bad name.
I know i'm late, but we had to go through all this as kids to 'divorce' my underage sister from my father ( I was old enough to never have to ever see him again, if so be my choice )
I can't believe his language here: "I know / I want them / me / me”. .. and then you say he leaves them anyway, and when he's with them, he's a yelling angry person who seems to only tolerate perfectionism ?
What.a.dick.
Poor kids, hope it works all out for them in the end - the law can be such an ass, and so can its employees.
But he really should buck up and see the bigger picture. My father has never met my husband, has never met my kids. Never will.
xx
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